An interesting comment on Mumsnet yesterday, on one of their entertaining Am I Being Unreasonable? (AIBU) threads. Abridged scenario below:
A colleague (Ann) who is on maternity leave brought in her gorgeous 4-week-old daughter today, as is fairly normal for our workplace (I took in my DD at 2.5 weeks, and my twins at 5 weeks).
There was lots of cooing, passing her around, cake and tea etc and it was very nice, except for one colleague (Beth) who made a point of being in a huff the entire time. She is having fertility issues and is soon to have a second round of IVF. She has also had 2 miscarriages. Some of us know this but not everyone.
So after about half an hour another colleague asked Beth why she was in such a bad mood and she started on a massive rant about how cruel and unfair it was of Ann to bring her DD in and show her off when she knew about the fertility problems. She was shouting right in Ann’s face and everything! Ann was in tears and we were almost too stunned to talk.
Whilst I understand that Beth must be having a really stressful time, I think her outburst was very unreasonable. Ann has absolutely nothing to feel guilty about and this may have a bad effect on her, especially as it’s her first baby.
Well. I do hope Ann doesn’t have PTSD from this experience.
Seriously, I find it hard to believe that Beth would kick off like this in the mother’s face. But presuming she did, this effectively highlights the minefield of parading children around the workplace.
I once arrived at work on a rainy Monday with raging PMT and a migraine, still fairly new in a job I was miserable in, to find my colleague’s two toddlers running free-range around my desk area with half the stationery cupboard spread over the floor. I mustered the correct greetings and smiles, then settled down to work. There was nappy-changing on the table beside me and a lot of excited squealing from my manager. At one point she admonished me thus: “Look! Someone wants to play – come on!” – as toddler #2 approached my chair with her ball.
From my first day neither of these cliquey women had ever shown much interest in me: I was unequivocally bottom of the heap when it came to booking time off, and I covered the younger mum’s job on her parental-leave days and offset the shorter hours of both women. They knew I’d been unable to have kids. I’m awkward with children if I’m feeling judged and I only have an interest if I like the parents. That said, I’m not the type to rant or show displeasure at all: I was simply quietly getting on with my work. The utter disdain I felt from not engaging more with these kids was absolutely palpable, however.
One good outcome of this was that the colleague never brought them in again: she arranged her visits off-site with my manager and those who wanted to see her kids. On that note, here’s the response that I like the best, although I disagree that she’s a misery guts:
I think Beth overreacted however I don’t see the need to bring babies into work – surely anyone who is interested in seeing them can arrange to do so outside of the workplace. I don’t have fertility problems but I hate having to pretend to coo over other people’s babies – maybe I’m just a misery guts though…
Now, I also ask myself in these situations, “what would a man do?”, and act accordingly. It’s liberating.
“What would a man do?” Is awesome. I love this motto. The truth is that it’s not ok to expect coworkers to participate in your personal life. That should be optional.
I don’t mind others’ bringing in their babies. I’m triggered when I see couples with kids around 8-10 years old who are NOT actively trying to kill their mom. Or swearing at her. Or hitting her. But hey, good for those parents. Must be nice!
I realize that this is just me, though. We all have our own stories, our own struggles. Well, maybe not Anne. She probably doesn’t have PTSD! lol.
LikeLiked by 1 person
My guess is that in that original scenario they completely overexaggerated the infertile woman’s reaction – in my younger days when people was bring a baby into the office and I didn’t want to sit around and coo over it (well before I was trying to have kids, I was just always kind of weirded-out how everybody stopped everything and started talking in little baby voices), I got the “what’s wrong with Aimee” whispers and comments and looks, as if this commented on my performance as an employee – you know, all the team player bullshit that is thrust upon people who don’t go with everything the crowd says. I’m betting the infertile woman neither “went around in a huff” nor “ranted”. I’m guessing what actually happened is she stayed away, and when someone asked her why she wasn’t joining in the cooing, she probably broke down and admit it how hard this was on her, something completely brave that offended this woman who wanted to be the center of attention.
I discovered my infertility after I started my own business working from home, and never had to deal with explaining to anyone when I was going through… I don’t call myself lucky I say this because nothing about infertility is lucky, but I’m in great admiration of women who have gone through this crap and have also made it through traditional annoying as fuck workplaces.
LikeLiked by 4 people
Oh and by the way early on in my career had a boss who let an employee actually bring her infant to work with her everyday and have it in her cubicle, because she couldn’t find daycare. Umm yeah.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Atrocious inequality – what about the parents that are paying 1000s for creches? This has always bugged me.
LikeLike
What is ‘creches’? I googled it and something about Jesus came up…
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ha sorry yeah they call baby daycare crèche here! Knowing this lot it might have something to do with Jesus
LikeLike
Oh hahaha…. Yeah here it costs about $1,500 a month to do daycare – oy!
LikeLiked by 1 person
€1000 a month here, at least, per kid.
LikeLike
I also don’t buy that she blew up in the mother’s face! Seems unlikely: I think the OP just wants us to believe that’s how it was…
LikeLiked by 1 person
Amen sister.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I really don’t understand this trend of being small children into the workplace. In my line of work, it’s flat out banned due to chemical and biological hazards. But it’s also counter productive in general. And I’ve yet to meet a kid that came in during a typical work day who was thrilled about the experience.
I get exposing children to work environments. Truly, I do. But I think assuming it needs to be done without consideration to others is actually bad parenting.
I agree with your response. And poor Beth. She deserves better colleagues.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I think Beth overreacted. If it made her upset she could have just removed herself from the situation. However, unless it’s take your son/daughter to work day I firmly believe children have no business being in the workplace. I had a manager once who brought her snotty little brat of a daughter to work every time the child didn’t have school and she couldn’t find a babysitter. This child demanded to play with a bobble head figure on my desk, I said no, and she said “My mommy is your boss, you HAVE to let me play with it” and I said “You are a child and I am an adult so you have to respect what I say and I say no, it’s not for playing with.” After that incident the child was (thankfully) restricted to our manager’s office and conference room.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Bloody hell what a brat! Awful
LikeLike
My last workplace was a law firm of about 50 [extremely fertile] people. All of the lawyers’ wives just kept having baby… after baby… after baby! Tradition was that the wife would bring in the baby at about a month old and take the baby around work to “visit” every single firm member and expect praise. Idk if all the coos and “Awws” from others were genuine or not… all I know is that it was so miserable for me as a woman with fertility issues. Instead of acting like a Beth though, I would just hide in the bathroom until it was over and the wife/baby left. Problem solved!
Workplaces should be child-free IMO. I get the occasional exception of a single mom with no daycare having to bring in her kid. But keep the kid away from other people who are trying to work; don’t expect free babysitting or that everyone is as into kids as the mom is. Nor should colleagues be expected to entertain them. Work is for grownups. Kids are not grownups.
I love, “what would a man do?” I’ll remember that if I ever have the misfortune of working in a place like that again!
LikeLiked by 2 people
First of all- that account of what happens sounds really biased. I am sure there was a little bit more to it than that. As far as kids in the workplace- I am not a big fan. If people want to bond over their kids and personal lives then have a BBQ or picnic outside of work and make it optional. I would never bring my child into a work setting personally. Forces people to act interested and is a distraction.
LikeLiked by 2 people
This same thing happened to me, with a slight varation. Children do not belong in the workplace.
LikeLiked by 1 person
You raise some good subjects here. Whether I had children or not, babies are NOT my thing. Even in grocery stores or restaurants, people think their child is so adorable that the whole world wants to ooh and ahh over them. I’m there for an entirely different reason than fawning over other people’s kids.
In the height of my infertility, I could not be around pg women or babies. My husband’s brother’s girlfriend got pg by accident, and I had to distance myself during her pregnancy. IOW, I stayed away from her. They eventually got married, but the entire family hated me. My SIL (the pg one) cussed me out, said I was selfish and didn’t talk to me for 10 years. No one was there for me while I suffered through infertility. They all told me to adopt and get over it, even before she became pg. No one else cared about my feelings, so I dared to take care of them myself.
I think what I would’ve done in the office situation would have been to remove myself from the presence of the woman and her baby. I might’ve greeted them and then tried to go do my work in a different area, or just go to a break room until they left. I don’t agree with getting in the new mom’s face, but I certainly wouldn’t be able to show interest, at least back then when I was still TTC.
LikeLiked by 1 person
It seems to me that, more frequently than not, there is just no empathy in families. Even in close ones, there may be initial sympathy and some effort to understand, but it quickly wears off and you’re left on your own. I wonder if it’ll ever change.
LikeLiked by 1 person
You’re right, there is some support initially, but they quickly get tired of it. Well said. They don’t understand it’s an ongoing process until we either reach parenthood or move on. The thing is, if they would’ve been empathetic to my feelings and supported me, it would’ve made it easier for me to be around babies (and pg women) in the family. But instead, their own insensitivity caused me to distance myself.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Exactly. You’d think they should’ve worked that out…. but no.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Having been in a situation where the Boss would bring his 3 children at the office then tell me to “keep an eye on them” while he made a run to the market, I find “Beth’s” reaction humorous whether true or not. How I would have loved to be able to scream bloody murder about “not being the baby-sitter!”
Children DO NOT belong in the workplace!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ugh: nightmare boss…
LikeLike
You can tell the person who wrote the post hasn’t dealt with infertility. The OP also seems really emotional unintelligent and immature. The narrative also seems really biased as commenters pointed out upthread.
I personally think bringing children to work is a distraction and I roll my eyes to my computer monitor when children appear.
My boss’ daughter had a baby a year ago and the baby was brought in. It was really hard but I held the baby. I told the daughter that it was nice to see her. It was really hard but I did it.
It also happens my workplace is obsessed with children! It’s really strange because obsession of children was not a part of my upbringing at all and it wasn’t a part of my life until age 34. Some of my coworkers know my story while others do not. I’ve learned from working there that people couldn’t care less about the feelings of the fertility challenged.
I’m sorry your coworkers were really shitty to you. Just some people aren’t into children and that’s OK. That’s a stupid reason not to like someone. It’s their loss. You’re awesome.
What’s PMT?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Hello DBND, pre-menstrual tension, I had the most awful foggy head that day – could barely speak – and just wanted to get to 5pm, then I saw the kids: aaagh.
LikeLiked by 1 person
A colleague of mine (who I’m quite good friends with) brought her baby into work just a couple of weeks after I’d had a miscarriage. Luckily I knew she was coming in and removed myself from that part of the office (we have 8 floors so it was easy), but if I hadn’t been prepared that could’ve had quite a bad impact on me, so often we have to psyche ourselves up for those experiences and to have to handle it at work is an additional stress. Maybe I’m impacted by my own issues as I don’t think children belong in the workplace at all, but suspect I wouldn’t appreciate the distraction regardless of whether I had fertility issues or not. A few years ago they banned kids from our work (for security / health and safety reasons) but there was a bit of a backlash so I assume they relaxed the rules.
Poor Beth – I wonder if it really played out like that?!
LikeLiked by 1 person
I kind of agree with the security / health and safety ban
LikeLike
So the last question made the most sense. Bringing kids to the office only makes sense if you are visiting your partner. For instance, you’re bringing the kids over so you can all have lunch. But to bring the kids to meet people in your office? Either you’re friends outside of work and you can meet outside of work, or if you’re only friends in this one space, do they really need to meet your kids? I’ve brought the kids to Josh’s office because we were meeting Josh, but it just wouldn’t occur to me to bring my kids to introduce them to co-workers, unless those co-workers were good things, and then they would see them in another context. Does that make any sense at all?
LikeLiked by 2 people
It absolutely does
LikeLike
I also suspect that the story about Beth is somewhat exaggerated. And also that she had been pushed to breaking point. I have enormous sympathy for her, especially as she now has to go back and work with all those women who didn’t show her any empathy. Ugh.
I would never have responded well to this, even before I tried to become a parent. I hated having babies thrust in front of me or in my arms, expecting me to coo and goo and gaa over the child simply because I shared the same biology as the mother. I still do. Doesn’t mean I don’t like children. But I don’t like the expectations that we all have to fawn over new parents and new babies, just because we’re women.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I hate the assumption, which I’m sure my co-workers have, that I don’t like children. They’d never assume that if a fellow mother gave their kids short shrift (in that case, the woman is ‘busy’ or ‘under pressure’ etc etc), but if a ‘childless’ woman does…. sigh.
LikeLike
Sorry, I misstated what I wrote above. Some people are not into other people’s children. I know I’m not. I hate the expectation, too.
LikeLike
Interesting topic. I’d say the story was exaggerated and that Beth probably didn’t shout in Ann’s face. However she probably was having a really hard time and was upset and angry about the situation so maybe it came across the wrong way. In my office people always bring their new babies in at some point. If I’m not feeling up to seeing a baby, I just stay in my office pretending to be busy and don’t go down to the kitchen area. Unless I’m friends with the person in which case I would try to make an effort and be polite. Normally a place is work is reasonably “safe” when you are struggling with infertility (as compared to a park or supermarket for instance) so it’s no fun when suddenly people bring their kids in. Our last work event ended up being a big family friendly thing for Easter where everyone was encouraged to bring their kids. Thankfully I was in Australia at the time so had an excuse! I’d much rather work parties were kept adult only!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Work definitely should be a safe place, I wish it was! Thanks Dub
LikeLike
Poor poor Ann. Golly I hope she muddled through. PLEASE!!
I completely suspected Beth’s response was exorbitantly interpreted, EcoFeminist’s comment iterated exactly what I was thinking!! I’ll bet their interpretation of Beth’s response was not so much based on the response itself but on people’s inability to handle their narrow social expectations not being met, as well as on Beth’s “audacity” in expressing HER pain, as a non pregnant person nonetheless!! Well now.
You can pick up on the nonchalance between the ‘Beth has had two miscarriages and is about to undergo a second round of IVF but oh poor Ann!’ trajectory and there’s some victim blaming inference in “she was in a huff” and a few other things as well.
We have every right to respond to children, especially babies and pregnant women based on our own needs and experiences, I hope one day people get this. It’s people’s resistance to this that only fuels our already towering emotions of isolation and not being heard. Our responses do not determine our worth or quality as a person.
Talk about social expectations – had that workplace environment not been so angled towards the reproductively privileged and had prioritized being sensitive to ALL involved, Beth wouldn’t have been driven to any type of impassioned response.
As fas as kids in the workplace, besides the occasional exception, I totally don’t get the connection, especially the forced employee cheer and participation in other people’s children. As far as people with fertility issues always being the ones to have to remove ourselves, I think this makes for quite the bigoted workplace scenario.
But really, I hope Ann is ok, having to absorb someone else’s feelings besides her own and not being the center of attention for two minutes really must have taken its toll. She seems totally ready to parent.
LikeLiked by 2 people
This is completely spot-on! Some very expert observations here: thank you. Definitely some nonchalance around reporting what is actually quite horrific (two miscarriages plus failed IVF) – I hadn’t picked up on that. They’re obviously of the school of thought of “oh get over it you’ll get pregnant eventually”. I’m familiar with that.
LikeLike
Your line “Well I do hope Ann doesn’t have PTSD from this experience” totally made me laugh, though I was apparently too busy ranting yesterday to remember to point this out:-). You have a real knack for illuminating these important social issues that also happen to really get me going. And I completely mean that as a compliment.
In the greater scheme of things, metaphorically, (oh gosh I’m still going…), Ann has a stubbed toe while Beth was thrown down three flights of stairs. But I think we all know to whom people will flock with their comfort and support.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ah thanks!
And sadly you’re dead right with that last bit.
LikeLike
Wow, I love this comment!! Thank you for sharing your thoughts and writing chops with us! I love every word of it!
LikeLiked by 2 people
She’s great isn’t she
LikeLiked by 1 person
Bravo! Wish Beth could see this comment (and all the others).
LikeLiked by 1 person
Aw me too!
LikeLike
Poor Beth, I would love to hear HER side of the story. Over the years, I endured dozens of coworkers bringing in their babies to visit the office while they were on mat leave (and even a few of the guys who took some paternity leave). Some visits were harder/easier to handle than others. I was lucky that my cubicle was situated near a back door… if I wasn’t in the mood to put up with a visiting baby, or didn’t think I could handle it, or found myself feeling annoyed or overwhelmed while the baby was around, i would make a quiet escape and take an early lunch or extended coffee break or run an errand, etc. I also agree that workplaces are not daycare centres, except perhaps in emergency situations when absolutely no viable alternatives are available.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’d also love to hear from Beth!
LikeLike
Ha. There’s sort of an expectation in my work (school) that people will bring in new-ish babies at some point. Usually though, there’s an announcement made via the listserv or word of mouth that mom and baby are in the staffroom (or whatever) and whoever wants to go say hi, goes and does. I would to feel ambushed; I think that’s unfair. I arranged to bring my baby to my old school when she was 5months (I made sure she’d had vaccines first lol) and we only went to the main office and then spent some time with my students and close colleagues. My overall feeling is it’s ok to bring a baby for a short visit if the visit is optional. Bringing older kids and expecting colleagues to babysit them….no.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I like the idea of warning people, and having it in a neutral “safe space”….
LikeLike
Yeah, although I could still see it being a problem if it’s a small workplace and there’s only one small staffroom, for example. In the schools where I’ve worked it’s not like there’s only one place for all staff to go on their break or lunch, so it’s easy to avoid babies if that’s not your bag. (I am an avoider, even though I brought mine in upon request). Warnings definitely, though.
LikeLiked by 1 person
At one point in time all three of my kids have been to my job. When the little guy was brand new I took him in, similarly to the scenario presented, but I legitimately had FMLA paperwork to complete because his placement happened so quickly (he was born Friday, I found out he was being placed with me Friday and I picked him up at the hospital the following Monday). I did not try to force anyone to hold him or even look at him, but I did visit with some friends who asked to see him. On Christmas Eve a few years ago I did not have child care and so requested the day off to care for my little ones. My supervisor cancelled my request and told me to just bring the kids with me to work. It was the most miserable half-day I’ve ever worked and I got next to nothing done as I spent my morning corralling the two kiddos. My oldest has spent time with me in the office, but he’s practically old enough to work there, so it’s not the same.
I don’t know how common this is elsewhere, but where I work co-workers will throw a baby shower for an expectant mother in the office, so I think the payoff for that is bringing the baby into work to meet everyone. When a friend of mine was celebrating the adoption of her daughter, I tried to get an adoption party held but found no one was very interested. To me, the issue at hand isn’t so much that the new mom brought her baby into work, it was the expectation that everyone needed to stop what they were doing to give their full attention to the new mom and her offspring. I love babies and I am the type to ooo and ahh over them, but when I was in the midst of infertility hell and actively trying, a sneak attack visit would have definitely put me out of sorts. I might have made a scene that would have been blown out of proportion, just like Beth. I think, if the place itself is safe, bringing a baby to work is ok, but being open to those who wish to ogle and those who wish to disperse must also be ok. And, a twist on the “what would a man do” idea – what if Beth had been a man not wanting to hold the baby? Certainly, the backlash would not have been fodder for office gossip as it was with poor Beth. Sigh.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thanks so much for commenting. I personally really appreciate it when people don’t pass the baby round like a parcel: I’m just awkward with babies around people I’m not close to. You make a good point there: a man would never be judged for not holding the baby, it’d be laughed off at the most and forgotten about instantly – I, however, would feel scrutinized. I sometimes wonder if if that’s me being paranoid, but I don’t think so…
LikeLike
I really don’t see the point of bringing kids, especially such young babies to work place. you can always invite your work colleagues to your home to see your kids, right?
LikeLiked by 1 person
I love that, “What would a man do?” and will have to remember it. I agree with others that it seems that we might get a different perspective on what really happened from Beth, that this seems totally biased and in the “angry bitter infertile woman” trope. I work in a school and people bring their babies in, a lot, but I’m not expected to do anything and actually, I’ve noticed that people never ask me if I want to hold the baby anymore, which is interesting. I don’t mind holding babies if I am free and have expressed interest, I do not like being busy or actually teaching and having someone interrupt everything with “Look! Look at me and my baby!” which happens sometimes, especially in a school. I feel like kids are okay in the workplace if it’s Take Your Child To Work Day, or if you’re meeting your partner for lunch or something, or the scenario Torthuil mentioned where you can go to a central place and fawn over the baby if you want but otherwise you can totally avoid it. Oh, and your statement about poor Ann and her PTSD cracked me up. I hope Beth had a better day (and a glass of wine) after this debacle.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Bringing an infant in is VERY different than someone bringing in toddlers – plus expecting their co-workers to entertain them!
If Beth really did react like that, she should probably apologize. That said, co-workers shouldn’t feel obligated to do more than say the baby is cute and go back to their work day. And, hopefully, anyone in the office with IF/loss issues has a good set of headphones to block out the rest of the doting.
LikeLiked by 1 person
“What would a man do?” -> will try to remember that one as it’s brilliant :-)!
Otherwise I agree with what has been said above.
Summer greetings from Switzerland!
LikeLiked by 1 person
I always want to die anytime my kids have been in work with me, and I certainly dont expect people to interact with them, I can barely do that myself. Agree, that it seems like an unlikely scenario in the first place. Beth probably just didnt make a big show of fawning over the kids and may have mumbled something under her breath.
LikeLiked by 1 person
LOL re the first part of that…..
LikeLiked by 1 person