There is a sensitive article in the Guardian right now that focuses on the one-in-five British women born in the 1960s who don’t have children. A photo of magnificent trailblazer Jody Day heads it up. There is a male perspective, too. I found Robin Hadley’s comments thought-provoking and brave; they reveal his innermost fears, however unfashionable they may be:
If you don’t have children as a man, you are basically saying you are a failure as a reproductive human being. There’s a feeling that you’re a threat, that you could be a paedophile and that you shouldn’t be around children at all.
Is this just his own ingrained disquietude, internalized via tropes that have evolved over time, similar to the popular mythology around ‘hags‘, ‘crones‘ and ‘spinsters‘? Or the sad state of the society we live in, in an age when lone adults (male and female) can be banned from children’s play areas? Plenty of the comments below the piece scoff at what he is saying:
What the actual fuckery?
But I sympathize with Hadley’s underlying unease. One of my former irrational anxieties about growing old in a marriage without children was that people might think there was something suspicious about us. It’s an ancient, primitive kind of feeling with a vague whiff of the ducking-stool about it.
Honestly, I don’t actively believe that most people care whether we have kids or not, but I do understand this man’s paranoia at being the odd one out in ‘the village’. Our DNA is haunted, perhaps, by less-forgiving generations.
Once again, I’m fascinated by the unnecessary snideness of some of the comments. Prize for most cretinous goes to WombatsRamble, for misunderstanding everything about the CNBC community:
When childless people imagine what they missed out on they probably think of some little angel saying “I wuv you, mummy” or “Thanks for teaching me to ride a bike, daddy”.
The just adopt brigade are out in force, of course:
Those whining about childlessness are insensitive to all the orphans or abandoned children.
Barren friends! Who will join with me on a mission to save the orphans as they queue for their gruel?
Grief for an unconceived child in a world of orphans strikes me as nearer victimhood than grief, sorry.
Seriously, do these people think you can just go down the street and collect one from the local workhouse?
Click on photo above for article
People.Are.Hideous. So, those people whining about the childless whining about childlessness..are they also not having children because the world is over populated and there are millions of impoverished children just waiting to be adopted? No, theyre probably enjoying their babycinos and toddler yoga in Hampstead. Or somewhere.
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They’re typing their comments from Baby Pilates classes in Primrose Hill….
Many of the just adopt crowd are childfree; they just don’t know much about adoption I imagine….
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Exactly!
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And why the hell is it the job of the infertile to rescue all these orphan’s who they had no responsibility in producing? Makes me so mad!
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Me too
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It’s like saying everyone who has a garden should be obliged to rescue a dog. Makes no sense. And I would actually love to adopt so this isn’t my personal feeling about adoption, just the logic of the argument and the assumptions made that make me so mad… Lol, vent over!
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I also find it illogical, and it’s the flippancy that irritates me, In Ireland, domestic adoption outside of the wider family of the child is almost non-existent. Very, very small numbers are adopted. So people tend to adopt from overseas and spend years, and tens of 1000s, in the process. If people can’t understand why some don’t want to embark on that, they’re idiots.
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No regrets here. I’ll be 40 in a few months and I’ve not had one ounce of an inclining of regret for never having children. I helped raised my siblings and while I’m grateful for my life and theirs, Eff the propaganda and guilt trips to reproduce. There are many unloved and unwanted people in the world. I’d rather love my neighbor and continue to learn how to love myself. Slow, deep breaths.
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Thanks E, I like to hear from people who have no regrets. I do feel for people who viscerally desired children and didn’t have them, and I wish it was easier for them, but I wouldn’t want children in my life now – it’s a good while since I had any pangs or twinges about that. Life takes over: too much other stuff to worry about…
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The ignorance and nastiness out there never ends. Of course all we have to do is turn on the news to hear the Orange Demon to confirm that these days.
There is truth to the lone-male fear that does differ from women. Most at the playground automatically see the lone female as at least an auntie, who they don’t have to fear, while men in the same situation are looked at with horror – they are not allowed to adopt as single parents in most countries because of this fear and horrific stereotype. Few men are encouraged to speak up compared to women on childlessness – because it’s seen as less “weird” if a man is okay with it (just as long as they’re not at a playground). Look at the blogs as a perfect example – in my 3 years focused on family building, I’ve seen maybe 5 blogs of men – 4 of them in committed relationships (3 same sex) and just one in another country who is a prospective adoptive parent trying to get through the system that wants to see him as a predator. Food for thought …?
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Yes, there are very few blogs by men on childlessness or living childfree. I have massive admiration for the ones that talk about it. I’ve seen a couple of male bloggers emerge here over the last year, but they’re talking about their IVF struggles that ended in babies, so they’re now parenting bloggers really. It takes balls to break through the stigma and stereotyping and talk about the reality of having to mix with all the dads at work (a lot of whom here seem boringly fixated on their ‘little ones’). The suspicious lone man thing is most times barking up the wrong tree, as well, since so much child abuse goes on in families,
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Exactly! I did run into a client once though who went through multiple miscarriages with his partner and they eventually adopted which had a completely different vibe than the IVF-success “never give up” crowd, and our neighbor across the street is in early stage infertility treatment (when they are still hopeful kind-of-thing), but yeah, few like us.
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The world has gotten much crueler hiding behind the anonymity of their computer screens. Years ago when I was struggling to accept being childfree by chance, I joined an online support group. I met a lot of supportive women. One of them wrote a hilarious one-page mockery about people who throw adoption in our faces. I can’t share it online anywhere, because it is not my written work, and that woman who wrote it hates me now (over a political issue we disagreed on, go figure). But, I saved it and can share it with you in a private email if you’re interested. You know it’s not my work, so I wouldn’t be infringing.
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Hi Lori I’d be really intrigued to see that, if you wouldn’t mind mailing it? I’m at differentshoresblog@gmail.com. Thanks so much
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This article is very well written. We need more of these.
The comments section. Well, let me put it this way. There was a time where people diagnosed with cancer were seen as somehow deserving and should be shunned (think back to the US Civil War). It took VAST amounts of education, sponsored by cancer societies and enforced by medical professionals, to turn all of that on it’s head. Even now, many cancer societies make a point to bring cancer survivors to the forefront during their events. The need to humanize those living with disease is still needed as people are too quick to forget.
Infertility is the same way. There are so many misconceptions about it, especially when someone resolves, but is not parenting. We’re still in the infancy of awareness and humanizing this reality. And breaking misconceptions in insanely fucking hard (too many prefer the comfort of being right and will fight tooth and nail to stay in that bubble). Hence those comments. None of them are okay, but also not surprising.
I have no answer for the “just adopt” brigade other than “than why didn’t you?” Every single time, the person throwing this out has zero clue what adoption actually entails.
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I didn’t know that about cancer patients during the Civil War – sounds interesting. Yes, those of the comment section (which I think reflects reality, judging from what I’ve heard people say out loud) really do see the infertile as inferior specimens who should put up or shut up. Very little empathy from those who haven’t experienced it.
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Ahh Differentshores… how are you doing? I too seen this article earlier and wrote about it. I’m also over the brigade who believe My Barren Self should adopt ‘any’ child from ‘any’ where. Like they have ever been through the trauma of babyloss and infertility – oh wait, hang on! Doesn’t adoption ‘cure’ all this trauma? Armchair critics and screen warriors, Trolls of the internet.
The internet can be such a supportive place but such a cruel place to those of us on the outskirts of societal ‘norms’ too… no wonder many choose to live their lives without children in silence, their thoughts must be deafening.
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Hey Bamber how’s things? I’m looking forward to a good read of yours now!
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I love this comment! Excellent! In all honesty adoption IS trauma. It’s not a band aid or a cute. It’s trauma for a child who will not just forget or “get over it.”
Why would these ignorant commentators suggest some of these things? It’s so insensitive. It’s so ridiculous.
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That’s the thing… people who say the things they say to us infertiles ‘forget’ it’s a vulnerable child and that it’s a tragedy they had to be placed for adoption in the first place…
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I love it when an article inspires discussions on our blogs and between blogs.
Your last two paras though, were brilliant.
“Barren friends! Who will join with me on a mission to save the orphans as they queue for their gruel?
Seriously, do these people think you can just go down the street and collect one from the local workhouse?”
Brava (as I stand and clap)!!
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I really like that too – I’m going over to https://inconceivable.wordpress.com/2017/10/03/i-am-the-one-in-4/ now to see what she’s said about it!
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si, bravissima!
Will you just tell me, where is that long queue so I will pick one as well.
I also love when an article like that inspires discussions.
lots of love from sLOVEnia,
Klara
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Ha yes apparently there’s an endless supply of orphans being given out like peanuts at happy hour.
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Hey, don’t count me out! (Just Kidding). “An endless supply of orphans being given out like peanuts at happy hour” – Ba ha ha ha ha ha, oh that’s GOOD.
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People who write comments on news articles are mainly idiots. I used to work in digital for one of the big newspapers and their online communities are made up of a load of complete losers. So I don’t bother reading them. Having said that I’m not saying that this idiocy doesn’t raise its ugly head in day to day life. I’m pregnant now, but I had a brief 4 year taste of life as a potential childless person and am friends with a few people who are now childless (in their 40s) through various circumstances. It’s not something to be belittled, and as one commenter said above, these ideas come from ignorance and lack of education.
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I agree about the newspaper communities. The Guardian crowd are particularly vitriolic. Sadly I think some of it does reflect small-minded real life communities. I’ve heard relatives spout some of the things I read in comments (D.Mail readers; they voted Brexit too…); that’s life I suppose. Thanks Wonky for stopping by!
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I don’t know why but I often feel compelled to read the comments under articles like the Guardian, then wonder why my blood pressure is sky high! The ‘just adopt’ brigade rile me the most along with the ‘why can’t these infertile people just accept they can’t have children, it’s nature’s population control’. I can’t help hope many of them would feel differently if it was their wife, husband, sister, brother, son, daughter or best mate in our situation. Or maybe I’m naive and they really are just awful people. Glad that the Guardian published the article though.
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I think they’re just ignorant and sorely lacking in empathy. So strange how the subject attracts such vilification though
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Loved the Guardian piece as well as your astute questioning of Hadley’s experiences and sentiments. I often question my views and states in the same way – how much of it is my response and what portion of my reality IS created by society being so far off base with childlessness? Not seeing myself reflected anywhere out there it’s easy to feel as though I’m imagining things from time to time. But then reminders that this a fertile world and I’m just living in it will no doubt come crashing in. Such as the comment sections of any piece on childlessness, for example…….It’s totally noteworthy that the loss and pain surrounding involuntary childlessness does attract intense vilification (as you pointed out). People need a staggering amount of education on the subject of adoption (an industry that has changed greatly even over the last 10 years, however people’s views and attitudes? NAH!) but I always question would they listen? In many ways adoption is a convenient crutch for the lame emotional capacities of others, a dumping grounds serving the absence of a willingness to bear witness to the grief of another.
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It’s definitely one area that gets absolute vitriol – it’s fascinated me ever since I found myself in the position of those receiving the ‘abuse’… interesting that I never cared about it before (when I was younger), which means that some sort of education / schooling in empathy is definitely needed out there.
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Oh wow, I totally get that feeling of being somehow suspicious since we don’t have kids. I love kids, I mean I’m a teacher for pete’s sake, but when we go for walks and smile at kids I get the sense that there’s this “it’s those weird childless couple again!” feeling among the adults. Probably not actually there (maybe), but I feel it nonetheless. Glad I’m not crazy. I loved this article. Very well-written, and bravo to so many different stories being put out there. I didn’t read the comments. People are so often mean just to be mean. And as someone who tried adoption and failed miserably at it, the “just adopt” argument makes me want to stab things (like a pillow, of course). I love the “Why don’t you?” comeback. Funny how people stutter at that or say, “Well, I had my own!” Huh. Thanks for sharing, I enjoyed the perspectives from both you and Mali regarding this article and the crazy comments beneath.
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Jess I have the same sensations…
I was thinking yesterday though that in recent decades there’s been such a massive focus on paedophilia and child abuse that any lone adult (or pair of adults sans youngsters, whether they’re a couple of parents out for a walk or whoever) probably feels a bit dodgy making eye contact with a strange child. I read a couple of Mumsnet threads where people are talking about how they haven’t wanted to linger on their own and watch kids playing etc because they felt suspect, and they always start with “As grandparents of six and parents of four children, we shouldn’t feel like this but… blah blah……”. So I think everyone has absorbed the horrible atmosphere we live under to some extent; hopefully we aren’t alone in this!
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Great article, thanks for sharing.
Ha, that queue – I would be interested in finding it, too ;-)! I mean: if adoption was that easy, there would likely be no childless couples around, right? So where do these 20% come from, I wonder? I agree: some people are just clueless.
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Comments on articles like this make me want to THROW UP! Shows you that people who don’t suffer infertility often suffer a frightening lack of emotional empathy – the perfect gift for a newborn baby eh?
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So true
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Just unbelievable comments, ridiculous people who don’t for one second think past the end of their turned up noses 😡
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I too loved the Guardian article — if not the comments below it. I try to keep myself from reading them, but I always give in to temptation. 😉 I keep thinking that somehow, someday, things will change — but I’ve been thinking that for a long time now & I’m not going to hold my breath… :p
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I appreciate you checking out my blog. I hope you found it helpful in some way. Thank you for sharing honestly from your heart about not having children. Sometimes I feel kind of guilty that I have numerous children because I can only imagine the pain of longing for a child and not seeing that fulfilled. I can’t imagine judging those who don’t have children either by choice or circumstance. One of my best friends never had children and is very happy with her life sans children. I’m happy for her. Another of my best friends married later and tried for many years to have children with much heartache before finally adopting. I cried with her all those years and rejoiced when she adopted. We’ve all had our share of joy and pain whether with or without children. You are a welcome voice for many, I’m sure!
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Thanks very much for dropping by Laura
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Oh good lord. What is WRONG with people???? Why do we all judge each other so harshly around the issues of child-tearing (or not) in society? A man shared some very honest deep feelings. Maybe the others should try…listening?
Don’t get me started on the adoption brigade. What the heck do they think adoption is? Going to an orphanage and picking out a child like a handbag or a rescue dog ?! Believe me it is not that easy. Not at all.
I’ll be the first to say adoption is great. But don’t adopt a waiting child to fill a need of your own. Adopt to be the right family for a child. Do you know what you do about deep emotional needs? Acknowledge them. Talk about them. Process and then share them. Kind of like the man who was childless did…
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I agree about not adopting a waiting child to fill a need of your own – I do think there’s an element of something vocational involved, it’s almost like a calling
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I agree, it’s a different vision of parenting to pursue. Plenty of people adopt after infertility. It’s just that adoption isn’t the answer to personal pain. Heal yourself, grieve the loss of baby dreams and THEN consider adoption. Let’s please not start throwing “orphans” at the world’s problems! Plenty of “fertile” people with children also adopt. Or adopt and then have bios! How silly to see adoption as the answer to a problem. Oh my stars!
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Yes, I’ve always found it very crass and unintelligent to throw out a blanket “adopt already!” to everyone and anyone who can’t conceive.
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I don’t bother reading the comments any more on any article published in the mainstream press (including The Guardian). I used to, thinking it my ‘duty’ as someone speaking up for childless women to ‘understand’ what others thought, so that I might learn something. However, over time, I’ve seen the same old ‘bingos’ (selfish, why don’t you just adopt, kids aren’t all they’re cracked up to be, I didn’t want them and neither should you, etc!) come up again and again. As this article above was such an important one, I DID take a look and I am pleased to report that compared to 5 years ago when I was in a similarly big article in The Guardian, the number of commentators ‘pushing back’ against the pronatalist ignoramuses has increased greatly! The tide of opinion is changing and I do believe (as I said in my TED talk) that it will take a generation to shift them, just as it has done for the LGBT community. Thank you for sharing the article. Hugs, Jody x
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Yes, there was only the odd idiotic comment, and they stood out like anomalies I though – progress! I probably shouldn’t focus on them so much; I’m getting better at not looking at them. Here in ROI you tend to get the worse ones: “Children are the purpose for living” etc….. on infertility articles. People really are cretinous: best not to look..
Thanks for stopping by Jody x
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